Potential Javelin Nerf Incoming

well, ok. perhaps just reducing the range would be sufficient. although, that would potentially even more harmful... snipers are rarely close in to where all the tanks and helis are, in my experience anyway, so there would be a lot less randoms designating stuff, you would literally have to find someone, and get them to specifically put effort into designating a heli...

but i don't think i missed everyone's point... yes, i heard reduce range quite early on, but that wasn't what I was talking about, because it would still be just as easy to lock on to and take down air vehicles, it would just be slightly more hassle... most people are acting like they are removing it from the game.

what about reducing the javelin's range (or guided shells) against air vehicles... that would mean snipers could still designate from far away, but it would be YOU who had to get closer to the target, leave the range against ground vehicles alone tho.

The "everyone's point" was that DICE needed to stop nerfing, that's what I was referring to;  The SOFLAM idea was just an idea of mine.

Reducing the Javelin's range could very well work, but its range isn't even that bad as of now;  but reducing the range of either is probably a good middleground for nering those combined weapons.

Im always close to my target when I Javelin.. but thats probably just something I personally do...

I'm terrible at flying! So, on that note, I think the helicopters should be nerfed. I enjoy trying to take out the enemy air support. Supporting the armor & infantry on my team. Yet, I get killed all the time by helicopters. SOFLAM & Javelin seem to be a good counter. Two people vs. two (or more ) people. Teamwork should win! Fly lower. Use ECM. Have infantry that are aware of the enemies actions. Don't nerf the game because you/your team need(s) to learn how to play. I've seen plenty of helicopters avoid the SOFLAM/Javelin combo. When I see my air support being taken out by the Javelin, I begin looking more closely for the enemy SOFLAM. Cheers.

12G Frag Rounds in Automatic Shotguns: I find this to be the most lopsided and overpowered option currently available. I cannot figure how you did not mention it.

This combo needs to be nerfed. It is unrealistic to be "sniped" by this combo at 50 meters. Their suppression effect is highly exaggerated and not realistic. Its sluggish projectile suffers from a high friction coefficient in reality, and the drop-off coefficient demonstrated in an accurate sim shows significant drop-off and variation in trajectory. All 7 rounds would certainly not land in the same hit box. This is not a f*****g rifle. Why would you design the round to perform as such? I cannot figure this out.

Beyond the logical inconsistencies I described it makes the game feel like the other MODERN shooter game. I enjoy BF3 precisely because of its aim to exist in a realistic physical environment. I bought BF3 because I am sick of the arcade run 'n gun style of the other MODERN shooter series. This combo equipped by 40% of either team (I'm annoyed when guys on my team use it as well as the opponent) is a one-sided slaughter making BF3 more like the other MODERN shooter. This is not the god d@mn other MODERN shooter. You have differentiated your product well, but if you wish to continue and improve the separation - this combo absolutely needs to be nerfed and updated to mimic a more realistic physical environment in line with the rest of the game.

Do you really want a gameplay experience like the other MODERN shooter?

I IMPLORE YOU TO CHANGE THE 12G FRAG/AUTO SHOT COMBO!

HARRO PREAS3, on 15 January 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

You don't seem to realize why most people are upset. When enough people piss and moan about getting owned by a particular method, DICE comes trumpetting in with some resolution that puts the majority of people who don't have an issue with it, out. How many snipers do you encounter that are completely useless to your team? I'd image many are. I've noticed just how many "lone-wolfers" there are in the recon class in this game.

That alone should tell you that the threat of a recon soldier working with an engineer soldier is'nt all that frequent, unless you're in a clan, or grouping up with friends. I see more people take out heli's with the stinger, than I do the Javelin.

They provide us all this realistic equipment, with unrealistic results. That's just the fact of the situation.

nogodonlyman, on 15 January 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

Do you like hijacking threads much?...

Start your own thread on it, no one will listen to it here.

IrishTeddi, on 15 January 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

This is an incoming nerf thread where the author asked for comments/opinions specifically on the topic of nerfing current weapons. Nerfing the 12G frag auto shotty combo falls into this category.

How do you not get that connection?

why nerf something that is actually well balanced?

far out...

HARRO PREAS3, on 15 January 2012 - 01:39 AM, said:

Sorry Harro, but there is no reason why a good pilot cannot fly uncontested against a sea of soflams. there are many counters to a soflam/javi team including changing assaults and going atfer it on foot or via some other attack (like mortar maybe). ECM will reload faster than a soflam/javi can lock one and travel a distance of 400 yrds. theoretically you can sit at the outside edge of a soflams range all day spamming the ecm while you blast at it with rockets. instead of trying to fix the billion snipers, or ading depth to the game EA is worried about nerfing a great defensive weapons system because to many people had their Wheaties peed in.

so far... i have only seen them nerf overpowered weapons... what did they nerf that didn't need nerfed? not everyone is going to whine about the unbalances in this game you know, most people want to just stop complaining and pay the game for what it is... but usually what that means is just use the overpowered weapons... that's not fixing the game, that's just breaking it even more. i complain about engineers all the time. in CQ, they beat me with my assault rifle. that's not a problem with how they balanced the game... that's what they designed them to do. carbines excel in CQ, they beat assault rifles, but at longer ranges, assault rifles beat carbines. i disagree, i say, the engineer is overpowered. it should be able to compete with those using assault rifles, not just whoop them every time. (some assault rifles, like the famas, are OPed already, and beat the carbines in CQ, but that's besides the point). and yet, people would happily tell me to forget about assault class, just use carbines, stop being a whiney dickhead, and play along, use the anti-vehicle class to beat infantry. or use the famas... but that's not what i think should happen, i shouldn't have to drop the anti-infantry dedicated class, and switch to the anti-vehicle class, to beat infantry... it's just not the game i really want to play, i forsee that if engineer is nerfed the way i describe, it will IMPROVE the game altogether, assault guys will be against assault guys, engineers will be against vehicles, and there will be less of them, which also means less popping their head around a corner, and fining RPGs down corridors at infantry, or if they are going up against shotguns, pull out their RPG and pop them in the gut as soon as they come around the corner, improving the quality of the game for those who aren't engineers, and making engineers swap to this class, to resotre some kind of balance to the classes in this game...

i'm not using this topic as a vehicle for my gurning, i'm just making the point that i'm not just angry because i get killed by engineers all the time, i'm saying nerf things, because it would improve the game overall.

that's why i agree to nerfing the soflam/javelin combo, or, as i suggested in my post a while ago, changing it so it isn't so ridiculously easy to take helis down with this method... and just so you know i'm not bias towards helis, because i fly them a lot, i actually think the helis chain gun should be nerfed against vehicles and infantry, i get tonnes of kills as the gunner, and i can take out a tank in one strafe... that's not down to my skill, that's down to the gun i'm firing causing a huge amount of damage to vehicles and infantry. it just doesn't feel right when a tank is completely defenceless, and cant evade my shots, can do literally nothing but get out and run away, which he often doesn't survive... i think that he should have a chance to escape, an especially skilled pilot should be able to take it out in one strafe, but that should be difficult and rare, he should have to take 2, or even three to completely blow it up, giving the driver time to escape...

and sorry for TL;DRs, if you feel it's worth arguing, read it, if you don't, then...

Harro,
As to your first paragraph: I couldnt agree more. Not only with the example used (engi carbines should not OP assault rifles in CQ) but with the reason for the tweaking. I have been a long time advocate of using a nerf/buff option to improve gameplay rather than appease those who want their K/D to be easier to padd.

That being said, I do not think that the soflam is a tool which detracts from the game play. every vehicle has a counter to the soflam that pretty much makes it useless unless the javi team is in really close to the target. the soflam is also incredibly easy to kill, so long at you have splash weapons or really good aim. if you have neither, get the mav and make short work of it. If the javi team does pull it off, I see no reason to allow the children in the heli to bail ( like 99% of them do once their vehicle is badly damaged) and take away the kill from the javi team. let it be a one hit kill for helis, and let the helis deal with it appropriately, by either coming up with a good counter attack to destroy it, or by staying away from the area in which the soflam operates. could the soflam range be lessened? sure, but as it stands now the javi range is less than the soflam range which means that if the javi team is together the range is smaller anyways. really my best argument is that I have been shot down by a javi maybe 5 times. I fly helis all the time, and dont have problems with them even when the enemy uses more than one against me. Im a good heli pilot but im not the absolute best. I just know how to fly low and know where im allowed to go.

If they serisouly intend to nerf the javelin's damage, then it damn well better get an ammo boost, otherwise it will be completely fucking useless. Whoever bitches about it being op needs to understand that it's a fucking HUGE rocket. If an RPG-7 hit a helicopter broadside, it would absolutely fuck that thing up, no questions, and that's only 85mm. A jevalin is 127mm... there is no way in hell a helicopter would stay up after taking one of those to the side, it would just gut the thing entirely.

I was severely disapointed with the in game performance of this weapon when the game came out, but if they make it even worse, I will lose alot of faith in dice making balanced game play. Pathetic damage + worse ammo capacity =/= balance

Usas, aka U suck at shooting need to be nerfed or completly remowed.

rkb811, on 16 January 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

once again, this is not a simulator. it doesn't matter what the weapon does in real life, what matters is balance, if it isn't balanced, then it isn't worth playing. how are you severely disappointed with it? were you expecting it to automatically lock on and track a moving target, and then destroy it in one hit? how could you expect that, how could that be balanced?

It'd be really disappointing if the Jav/SOFLAM combo was nerfed to hell, because it's currently the only effective combo for infantry to run a heli out of an area. I don't necessarily think that it should be a 1-hit-kill, but it should at least give a heli pilot a strong incentive to take some cover. Currently, a good heli pilot can just laugh off a stinger lock. I flew with a guy on Noshahr the other night that was just murdering the other team. I was running engineer trying to get some repair points to level up my support chopper, but the guy never needed me. It got to the point that I was literally wishing someone on the other team would set up a Jav/SOVLAM combo to take the guy out. The same applies to the attack helis on Sharqi. The ground pounders need an effective way to combat the helis that doesn't involve the entire 12-person team equipping a stinger. Come to think of it, I can't even see the point of the engineer's AA weapon at this point. I never see it used effectively in a match.

If they see this through, I fear flashbacks of BF:BC Oasis. Complete ownage if the other team has a decent heli pilot, and nothing you can do about it but rage quit and find another server.

HARRO PREAS3, on 16 January 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

I'm disappointed because it takes me 3 javelin's to MAYBE destroy one tank. And then meanwhile, I've had an rpg hit my tank from the rear and it killed me instantly. If they want to give those rockets that kind of damage, the javelin should have the same benefit.. More over, when something like a fucking buggy only gets disabled by it, with no kills of the exposed passengers, something is severely wrong.


any typos are due to me using my phone on this post.

rkb811, on 17 January 2012 - 04:34 AM, said:

it takes two javelins to disable a tank, and once it's disabled, they can't move, and their health runs down to zero, and they explode. shoot two, them position your self behind the tank, where he can't see you for his own smoke. then wait for him to get out, shoot him, and steal his tank. not oped. it takes two RPGs to destroy from the back.

The soflam jav combo can kill a tank in one due to the "top attack"

The jav alone takes 2 or 3... assuming no reactive armour or you hit the same area.

No one really uses the combo on xbox, so I dont see it as a problem for heli pilots.

Tanks guided shell is used alot though.... i think its a good thing. Most of the time i use the canister shell and hit the scout chops with it.

You wanna nerf THIS ??? (you tube video) ... Really what do you think this weapon system is gonna do to a Helicopter? Look at those destroyed tanks and tell me you think helicopters have more armor than tanks...

Hi my name is Clone and I play xbox cuz i'm to broke to buy a $1300 pc.

Sorry double posted.... DANM IE!!